For the first few years of my gaming career, I would place myself among the gamers who disliked experience points and rarely used them in my games. Usually, when playing a game like D&D or Pathfinder that used XP, I would just ignore it and have the players level up whenever it was appropriate. While this "ad hoc" system worked for the most part, I always felt weird using it for reasons I could never figure out.
Eventually, after thinking long and hard about it, I realized why I was feeling weird about using the system. Basically, I was stripping the players of some of their agency in the game. While I was basing the level rewards on the actions of the character, I was still the deciding factor in when they leveled up instead of the players themselves. With experience points, the players receive a different number of points based on the challenges they choose to face. Because of that choice, the players are determining how fast their character's advance instead of just the GM.
Now, while my opinion of experience points as a mechanic have changed, I still have some problems with the way they are presented. I've never liked the large amounts that it uses, especially when you realize they are using those big numbers for pretty much nostalgic reasons. In some of the older editions of the game, characters would earn experience from acquiring gold pieces as well, which made the large number of experience points needed for each level make sense. However, since the newer editions don't use that standard anymore, there's really no need for the big numbers.
Instead, you could easily make it where characters need 10 XP to reach the next level. They receive 1 XP from monsters with a CR lower than theirs, disabling traps, and handling RP challenges (like a diplomatic situation). They receive 2 XP from monsters with a CR equal to theirs. They receive 3 XP from monsters with a CR higher than theirs and for completing an adventure. If you want advancement to be somewhat slower, maybe make it where they need 20 or 30 XP. That makes the numbers a lot easier to handle and hand out during the game. I know I'm not the first person to come up with this kind of system (similar systems have shown up on Blog of Holding and Papers & Pencils for example), but I think its still a good idea to point out the designers could have gone with a much easier system instead of keeping with the traditional numbers just because of nostalgia.
Also, I think it would be cool if more groups experimented with what actions and choices will reward experience and which won't. For example, lets say your group is playing a game where the characters are treasure hunters and most of the adventures revolve around that idea. You could possibly reinstate the "Gold for XP" rule from older editions of D&D or grant experience whenever the characters find a magic item or artifact. Doing so would reinforce the concept of the campaign since the players are being rewarded for finding treasure. There would probably be some universal things that grant experience (like fighting monsters and completing quests), but you can add an additional one or two just to reinforce the concept of the setting and rewarding players for playing with that concept. Just a thought.
So, dear readers, what are your opinions on experience points? Do you love, hate them, or have no strong opinion either way? If you love or hate them, why? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I've pretty much come to the same conclusion as you are, but I think I'm an even bigger fan of "gold as xp" or straight up "quest reward" style, rather than giving out XP for killing.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to think of other variations for "xp as goal"--things like a "Credits for XP" in a smuggler game, or "Freed slaves for XP" in a rebellion game, or even "Deaths for XP" in an assassination or gang war style game. Basically, let the players know "you want to advance, here's what you need to do. Now, go FIND it" and leave the initiative in their hands.
Actually, I kind of like the "gold as xp" from OD&D since treasure hunting was part of the game and it makes the large numbers make sense. However, if you aren't going to use it, you don't need the big numbers.
DeleteWhen it comes to the combat elements, I actually will grant XP to the party, even if they don't kill the opponents. All they have to do is "defeat" them, which could mean finding an interesting way to escape them that makes it hard for the opponents to follow, knock them out and tie them up, or even manage to talk their way out of it. I make sure my players know this took at the beginning of a game since I believe it allows for more interesting combat encounters and encourages them to think of more creative solutions than "kill, kill, kill."
Finally, I completely agree with your second statement. I would love to see more people tweak the XP rules to help reinforce the theme and flavor of the game.
Ah... the reward mechanism. Something that often sounds great until you think what kind of play it encourages...
ReplyDeleteNice example - Dungeon World. It awards some XP on session end - one for playing to your alignment, one for resolving a bond with another player, one for learning something new and important about the world, for overcoming a major enemy and for looting a big treasure.
It also, however, awards XP for each failed roll. Yes, enough failed rolls can kill you, but one or two especially rejoiced in failed rolls. There are no GM rolls in Dungeon World - so failed rolls are the times when bad things happen to you.
You could now argue that we learn most from our failures. That would be a philosophical justification. You could argue that it is an incentive for taking action instead of remaining passive - making rolls is always rewarded in some way, either in the story or in the game.
But from a pure game point of view it quickly fell apart. If you get a player too focussed on this one reward mechanic or playing reckless, the whole session suffers.
If you can earn up to three XP from resolving bonds, then looting a memorable treasure is not a true focus of the game. If you can earn a level upgrade from failed rolls alone, however, then all other criteria become moot. Somebody whom I told only this reward mechanic responded that DW must be "a comedy of errors" type of game. ;-)
So, you mention player agency and also make a connection to the reward mechanic. But it remains a tricky business. Some players will instantly go for the easiest reward and break your game if it is breakable. Hence your original level-up approach was actually a good and considerate one as it surely factored more than "Killed monsters" and "Finished Quest".
XP systems are not the easiest to balance to say the least. In most regards I actually think of my example, Dungeon World, as a most excellent game. Go figure.
I've played Dungeon World and I admit the failed check XP part felt weird to me. Like you, I picked up on the "We learn from our failures" idea behind it, but I can see how it would add some weird affects to the game. Mouse Guard also has character growth from failure, but you also have to get a number of successes as well and it only affects each individual skill instead of the entire character. I like it better, but I do know some people who don't.
DeleteWhile my original method for leveling up did work and the game went fine, the reason I changed it was that it didn't feel right for me and my players never seemed to be all that excited to level up. I actually asked one of them why that was and they basically told me they never felt like they were actually earning it since I just told them they leveled up. However, I do realize that my players are not everyone else's players and other players might not feel this way. So, I think experience points were needed for my group.
Also, I agree that some players will go for that easy reward and that could break the game. However, that can be true for pretty much any mechanic in the game really. No rule is perfect and unbreakable. I also agree that XP systems aren't easy to balance, but I like the challenge of it :)
Thanks for the comment DerKastellan. You've actually given me some things to think about and I'm going to keep the points you've mentioned in mine as I try and refine XP in my game.